tuning hondata @WOT problems

[spidermancivic]

my cars been at autowave for the past week. application is a jrsc civic si [email protected] psi with the mvm stepper pulley with hondata S2B and RC 550s. Mike is the tuner if your fimiliar with him and we've been trying to diagnose a tuning problem@WOT for the past week. day one of tuning resulted in 127whp and disappointing problems. i have not been there for the other 5 days, but, Shawn at autowave has been calling me everday about the results.

anyways, idle and acceleration is fine except@WOT, where backfiring appears occasionally with some bogging. before the tune, we put in some colder plugs. our first problem was that we were amazed that the stepper pulley put out almost 12 psi, so, we swapped to the 3 bar map in. it still did not solve the problem so, we checked the cap, rotor, and coil. they were all getting toasted, so, we replaced them.................it didnt solve the problem. i remember the cat was clogged so they dropped out the cat and it seemed to free up a bit. we cleared the cat up a bit and the problem is still persisting@WOT.

What can the problem be. the tuning seems fine, the blower seems fine. I thought of belt slippage, but, there is no drop in boost.

We popped the valve cover off and looked at the valve springs. they look ok. we are going to proceed with a valve adjustment tommorrow. any ideas would be great. we are troubleshooting one possible problem at a time.

[JRCivic]

Do you have adjustable cam gears on this car ??? I tuned a N/A H22A once that had Skunk2 cam gears installed on it and the timing lines and advance/retard markings ended up being 8 degrees off !!! the car made 142 wheel HP before we discovered this... once the cams were rolled into proper alignment with the crank, we picked up 54 wheel HP !!!

It sure seems odd that the car runs PERFECT during idle and all part throttle duties... then goes to shit at WOT.

What about the possibility of incorrect TPS voltages... say below 4.4v at WOT ??? Maybe the MAP sensor and TPS sensor plugs have been accidentally switched ??? Also, have you tried another known-good ECU ???

[spidermancivic]

yes, it is also strange to mike. he's troubleshooting little by little due to increase bussiness at his shop. i will give them a call tommorrow and ask them to check the tps and check if there are aftermarket cam gears on when he pulls off the valve cover for valve adjustment.

ive searched and searched and found no one with a similiar problem as mine. update will come soon.

[217gsr]

Are the plugs gapped correctly?

[spidermancivic]

$748 on the dyno and problem still persist with bogging in boost. also just for additional info, the car bogged in boost before the hondata was in too. all else is good with no lean areas. a few valves were tight on the valve adjustment, so we adjusted it, but, still the same problem persist. cam gears are stock. checked compression and did a leakdown test. kinda weak in two cylinders, but, not life threatning.

im just going to bring the car back home tommorrow morning and start troubleshooting myself to save time and money. Ill give the TPS a look when it gets here. gonna check all wiring from the ecu to under the hood.

im also thinking, weak valve springs. i found a set of oem valve springs and retainers. i think i might pick em up and see what goes on with that too. i was also thinking timing belt, but, that is a long shot. maybe vacuum leaks, but, vac gauge shows a steady 20inhg at idle? also, the JR FMU is still connected, but, with the vac source unplugged from the fmu and fuel lines still running in and out to the stock fpr. source of vacuum is also plugged. gonna spend my weekend checking all sensors and wiring.

post some possible info for my weekend work.

[JRCivic]

What about a problem with the bypass valve ??? Have you watched it on dyno to make sure it stays closed COMPLETELY during the entire pull ??? I have seen cars with damaged diaphragms in the bypass valve (or objects in the path of the swing arm) that seemed to "studder" under boost... sluggish performance sprinkled with heasitation. Also make sure the vaccuum hose between the bypass valve and gooseneck is in good shape... and there are no leaks at either end around the nipple fittings.

[spidermancivic]

Couldnt get any printouts or postable info today when i picked up the car because Mike wasnt in today. Ill call him monday when he's back in, because, still have to pick up some of my stock parts frm him. Im not a hondata expert, but, do all tuners save hondata info on there lap tops? I wanted to post whatever results for you experienced folks out there . anyways................Ill tell it from a lamen person's way.

Shawn told me that the tuning was good. AFs are at 12.0s. the only problem is from the studdering and bogging from WOT. Idle and acceleration (including acclerating into boost without WOT is good).

My first drive was awesome. The idle was good. With the hondata on, there is no more detonation, the car runs smooth in all rpm ranges (before, it occasionally studders at low rpms and feels lack of power), my vtec engagement is so much more noticable and felt, the car feels like a new animal (in a very good way [img]biggrin.gif[/img] ) Ive never really experienced or even imagined my car to run so smooth.

now, enough of the good stuff, lets get going with the bad. In WOT, the boost gauge climbs and holds steady @ 11psi. Power is still felt, speed and and rpms are increasing. During all this at WOT, you can feel the car studder and bog a bit at full boost in WOT. At almost 12 psi, i would expect much better than this. it feels like 6 psi.

I will definately checked all of what you had said Jim, but, I also have something strange to share. Before the hondata, I had a walbro 255 high pressure fuel pump installed and changed out the fuel filter at the same time. Ever since that day, my fuel pressure gauge has been reading 70 psi at idle and static with the JR FMU. Now that the hondata is in, the gauge still reads 70 psi at idle (PS: How do i check static with the hondata on?) Im thinking it will also read 70 psi. If this is the case, could it be the fuel pressure gauge messing up, or is it something else? What would cause the fuel pressure to read so high? Also, where should ignition timing be set at @ idle?

PS: going over hondata's website again, i noticed that the fuel enrichment relay is supposed to be removed. where exactly is this supposed to be located at? i think it is already off, since i had the JR MAP controller before, but, it doesnt hurt to double check. the IAT sensor is already in the back of the manifold.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 29, 2005 03:45 AM: Message edited by: spidermancivic ]</font>

[JRCivic]

Chances are good that your fuel enrichment relay is already removed because you did have the JR MAP mod. However, one can double check to make sure. Originally, the JR manifold had a pressure switch installed on the passenger side of the brake booster hose (along the back edge of the manifold facing the firewall)... and attached to this is a single black wire. This wire goes back to the fuel enrichment relay.

You mentioned that you still have the JR FMU still connected. This should be removed. Since you have disconnected the vaccuum line from it, your idle fuel pressure is 70 psi as you stated. Your WOT fuel pressure is also 70 psi. This is not how your fuel system should react.
Unfortunately, all of your idle and part throttle tuning has been done at 70 psi... so the car will have to be retuned at the proper fuel pressures.
Static fuel pressure should be set at about 43 psi... with your 255 lph fuel pump, chances are good that you cannot get fuel pressures below 46-50 psi...

To give you an idea of how significant your fuel pressure change would be after removing the JR FMU and not modifying the Hondata tune: You car would be 23% lean at idle and about 11% lean at WOT !!!

[spidermancivic]

mike at autowave told me that leaving the fmu on and taking out the vacuum line will leave it just as though it was just a straight fuel line going through to the stock fpr. Are you trying to say that we should of had just taken off the fmu in the first place? makes me wanna slap myself for not going with my gut instinct in the first place.

do you think this may be the problem at WOT? Ill take it off and connect it as one solid fuel line, but, just to see how it reacts. If the fuel pressure drops I do not want to take it out for a test spin, since youve mentioned that there are extreme lean areas i will encounter.

i guess what im really trying to say is, if the fuel pressure drops with the fmu off, should i take it back for possibly retuning to possibly fix the WOT problem? [img]mad.gif[/img] do you think this will possibly cure the WOT problem? Ive spent alot of money already and dont want to dump anymore on it if it doesnt fix the problem.

so you dont do california tuning tours heh Jim [img]wink.gif[/img]

I have alot of confidence in mike, the only problem is, he just not very experienced with JRSC applications. All i see in his shops are turbocharged tegs, S2000s, and 2 NSXs.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 29, 2005 02:16 PM: Message edited by: spidermancivic ]</font>

[DC2NR]

could it be possible that the fmu is damaged?